This is a piece I started working on this past week. I put a number of hours into it but, as I neared the finish, I realized I missed the mark. There's simply too much going on in this. While my intention was to create a realistic dialog between two friends in order to illustrate my ideas about relationships, the message gets convoluted. This makes sense, because this is how this sort of conversation goes, however if I'm going to write something about my ideas I want it to be focused. This piece brings in around 11 different themes, and it's possible you could read more into the subtext. At about 10 pages, you can see how I no doubt fail to develop many of them fully.
Having said that, some background information is in order. I cut the first half page and never wrote the intro to this because it was so unfinished. I began this as a sort of thought cultivating paragraph with no real punctuation and only vague ideas of the actual full concepts I would delve into. As i was writing I picked up steam and decided, what the hell, time to start doing it right. this piece picks up where I started paying attention a bit closer to what I was saying.
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The scene takes place in a bar, two friends have met up for drinks and conversation. One of them (and it will become obvious which) makes a comment to the effect of "Men just need to chill out and let the girl control things, otherwise there will be problems" in the manner of a joke. His friend presses him on why he says it and the first man's misgivings with his own relationship come out. They proceed in question and answer style, discovering the root of the problems in the first friend's relationship and uncovering dangerous and false life and philosophical premises that the first friend has accepted.
The scene opens after the second friend has said, "If you don't believe what I'm telling you is true, and your girlfriend doesn't really like you, then test her." The first friend asks how and...
(Note: I took notes in Word on some of the things I wrote, they copied in here as the little [D] tags which reference all the way to the bottom of this post.)
“Well
you can’t usually do the same things that she’s doing. For example if she wants you to text her each
night, you can’t ask that you text each other on alternate days, you one then
she the next. Though there are probably
women who would balk at that. The result
is the same, it’s what she desires you to be or more precisely what she desires
the relationship to look like. This is
what most people consider “working it out” or “compromising” by the way - working together to do what one person
wants. She doesn’t mind sharing some of
the burden to make her perfect world, but she’ll be damned if she’ll share any
of it to help you be happy in yours.”[D1]
“That sounds so selfish”
“Of her or of you?”
“Of her.”
“Well it is, in the sense of a child’s selfishness. A child throws a tantrum when things don’t go
their way or, to use my language, when the world doesn’t conform to what they
think it should be. An adult, by my
standards, accepts the world as it is and changes themselves or their situation
– something won’t become better by demanding it be better. That requires purposeful action. Except of course, in relationships where one
person accepts that it’s their job to do exactly that. And hey, if that makes you happy, then go on
doing it. I don’t think it’s possible,
but I can’t speak for the whole of the world. Besides, I don’t think we’d be having this
conversation if you were fully happy.
You would have said from the beginning ‘Maybe that’s so, but I’m happy’
and I could say nothing against it. I’m
not arguing against happiness. It’s your
life, and unlike her, I’m not going to demand that you live it my way so I can
live out my fantasy of how things ought to be in the real world.”
“Well what are you arguing against?”
“The idea that your happiness is subordinate to hers. The idea that relationships require the
sacrifice of one person to the other.”
“Sacrifice is important.
I can’t have my way all the time.”
“Isn’t that what she demands of you?”
“Of course not.
Sometimes we hang out with my friends and sometimes with hers, we take
turns choosing the restaurants or movies, I’m not always happy with her choice
but I don’t mind doing it because it makes her happy and I like to make her happy.”
“That’s excellent, I think that’s extremely healthy. Wanting to make other people happy is what
benevolence is all about.”
“So what’s your point then?
You’ve just agreed with me.”
“I don’t see it that way.
I think you’ve agreed with me.”
“That doesn’t make any sense, I just proved to you that not
only do I sacrifice in my relationship, but she does too and it makes me
happier.”
“Yes, but does it make her happy to make you happier?”
“Of course.”
“Then tell me one major thing that she sacrifices on, for
you.”
“Well, she doesn’t like all my friends and feels a little
uncomfortable being around them sometimes, but she still let’s me hang out with
them.”
“Jesus, listen to yourself.
‘Lets me…’ ugh! Really? Do you need permission?”
“Don’t move the goalpoasts, it’s just the word I used, it
doesn’t mean anything.”
“It does, but you’re right.
So she ‘lets you’ hang out with your friends sometimes. That’s major?”
“Well yeah, she comes sometimes too. That’s a pretty big sacrifice. Who wants to hang out with people they don’t
like?”
“I agree, who does?
How does she act when she comes out with us?”
“Well she’s amicable.
She doesn’t insult you or anything and she talks to you guys when you talk
to her. Being totally honest she isn’t
her normal self. She’s more quiet and
seems to be a little uncomfortable or bored.
When it’s just us we have a great time, she’s funny and we have great
conversations. I think she just can’t
relate well to my group but she’s trying to accommodate them into our life.”
“Again with the word choice, whose life are you living? But anyway, that’s very noble of her. Have you asked her why she comes to hang out
with you and your friends?"
“No. Does it matter?”
“Yes.”
“OK, fine, I don’t know the full reason but I don’t think
it’s unreasonable to assume it’s because she’s making an effort.”
“It isn’t. Not at
all, and what I’m going to suggest sounds manipulative and low. You care about this girl so you won’t want to
believe it of her, but just take a moment and evaluate this through what you
know.”
“I’m not going to listen to you insult her.”
“Nor should you, I’m not going to. Everything here depends on perspective and
what’s happening. Like if you tell
somebody they’re fat it’s an insult unless they’re comfortable with who they
are or with who you are and where you’re coming from. Whatever their feelings about it, it doesn’t
change the fact. Does that make sense?”
“So, you’re saying it’s OK to call people fat all the time?”
“Don’t be a dick. I’m
serious.”
“Haha OK, so you mean that there are facts and things that
are real, and sometimes those things are uncomfortable or make us angry. But that fact that it makes us angry, doesn’t
make it an insult. It just means it’s a
truth that we don’t like.”
“That’s the gist of it.”
“Ok, hit me with the facts.
The FACTS.”
“You want to make her happy.
It makes you happy when she’s happy.”
“Right.”
“So how do you feel when she’s out with your friends and
she, I’m using your words here, ‘seems to be a little uncomfortable or bored’?”
“Responsible. Like
somehow I’ve messed up and I want her to be having as good a time as I could
be. And I try really hard, too. I’ll explain jokes to her and ask her opinion
and talk with my friends when we’re away from her, asking them to try to help
her feel comfortable.”
“You’ve asked me to do it.”
“Right?”
“So you try really hard to help her to have a good time out
with your friends, but despite all your effort, how often does she have a good
time?”
“Mostly she doesn’t.
When it’s a bigger group and we kind of have our own bubble together
because everybody has broken up into their own talking pairs, she has fun. It’s just around all my guy friends. But she doesn’t complain!”
“She doesn’t have to.
How do you feel when you want to go out with your guy friends?”
“Alone?”
“Alone or with her.”
“Well
when I’m going out alone, honestly I have a great time. But if I’m not texting her letting her know
what I’m doing and telling her I’m thinking about her, she gets pissed
off. And so it kind of ruins my guy
time. Not completely or anything, I
still have a good time, but I can’t do it without feeling at least a little
guilty.”[D2]
“Would I still be within the facts if I said that a lot of
times you end up on the phone, fighting, and you either go home to deal with it
or stick around a bit resentfully? Dare
I say rebelliously?”
“You’ve been there often enough, you know it’s true. She just misses me.”
“After a couple of hours?”
“You know what I mean.”
“I don’t think you know what you mean, but we can dissect
that later if you really want to. So
here are some more facts. Earlier you
said it was a big thing that you guys compromised on, for her to come out with
your friends and for you to come out with her, right?”
“Yeah.”
“So what do you do when you go out with her friends?”
“I try my best to have a good time. Her friends are cool for the most part and I
don’t mind being dragged along if she really wants me there. Rachel is a dumb bitch…”
“Yeah she is.”
“…but I still make an effort to be nice. And I’ll dance and buy drinks for everybody
and try to keep things fun.”
“What if she wants to go out alone?”
“I’m cool with it.
Like I said it makes me happy to make her happy, so if she wants to do something
by herself or just with her friends I’m all for it. Sure there are times when I want to see her,
and I say it to her, but if she wants to stick to her plans I don’t resent it. Not much.”
“Not enough to call her and remind her to be thinking about
you?”
“God no.”
“Not enough to get upset and, not demand, but create the
impression that the only thing she can do to make it up to you is to leave?”
“No…”
“Do you see what I’m driving at?”
“Yeah…Yeah I think so…”
“Well don’t let me put words in your mouth. Say it.”
“No, I get it.”
“This is important.
You’re about to name this thing instead of just letting it be a feeling
of dread or a vague fear. You’re going
to tell me what it is, not because I told you to, but because you know deep
down that identifying it is important to you.
It can’t be something I just explain to you; you have to see it for
yourself.”
“OK…If we put it side by side, when I go out alone she gets
upset at me and I feel guilty for not making her happy. Not always, I won’t say always. When I go out with her and my friends she
doesn’t have a good time and I feel guilty.
When she goes out alone I’m happy for her because she’s happy. When she brings me out with friends I try
very hard to have a good time and make a good impression, even if some of her
friends - Rachel - are unbearable.”
“Do you disagree with anything you said, as a fact?”
“No, of course not.
It’s all true.”
“Then what does it mean?”
“It means that I’m the only one sacrificing. It means she doesn’t have room in her life
for me to have friends.”
“Do you notice you said ‘her’ life?”
“Yeah.”
“Do you know that when you’re talking about yourself, you
say ‘our’ life?”
“Yeah.”
“So what does it mean?”
“It means that I’m working hard to accommodate her life and
her friends into our relationship. I’m
working to make things work. But when it
comes to my life and my friends, she just tries to make me feel guilty. Jesus, I feel bad just mentioning something I
heard or did with you guys, let alone actually asking if I can go out. Oh god you’re right. I have to ask her.”
“Keep going.”
“You were talking earlier about making me fit her image of
what things should be like.”
“Sure.”
“Talking that way, her image of what things should be like
doesn’t include my friends and my time. How could it?
Taking time with my friends, for myself, means I’m either detracting
from the perfection of what she wants or I’m creating a possibility that I will
take something away from what she wants.
Like if she had toys still and one of them threatened to just up and
walk away and do its own thing. It’s hers
so she should be able to play with it whenever and on whatever terms she wants.
In her perfect image of how things
should be, I’m on call.”
“What does that make your relationship?”
“Fuck me. It does
not.”
“Don’t hide from this.”
“It means that she treats me like a servant. It means that to her this isn’t a relationship. A relationship between equals has to be
bidirectional, but I’m the only one giving anything. I work and I work at it and any chance I get
to squeeze something out for myself, if it doesn’t include her she stomps on
it.”
“Don’t go off the deep end.
I’m sure she doesn’t mean to do anything malicious.”
“What’s it matter if she means to? I spend most of my time wondering what I’ve
done wrong, and if things are going well I can’t stop wondering when I’m going
to be accused of fucking up again.”
“What would happen if you stopped serving her? What would happen if you demanded that she
give you what you want?”
“That’s exactly what she’s doing to me though! I don’t want to just do the same thing to
her. I’m not a hypocrite.”
“There is an important difference though.”
“In what?”
“In your idea of how a relationship should be, and in her
idea of how it should be.”
“Seems to me it’s the same.
She’s demanding that I sacrifice to her, it’s the same thing if I refuse
to budge or accommodate her on anything.”
“No, it isn’t.”
“Then what’s the answer?
Honestly I’m too pissed off now to think it through.”
“Your
way of doing things doesn’t require anything of her, while her way requires
everything of you.”[D3]
“How do you figure that?”
“You want to make her happy, and while that means doing
things together and making her feel special, sometimes it also means giving her
space. Doing things you might not do on
your own. Accommodating her life
alongside yours. But she doesn’t want to
make you happy.”
“Is that true though?
I mean, in this situation I guess it is but I don’t know if we can
stretch that to everything.”
“Does she hate your friends so much that she wants you to
drop us because we’re bad for you? Do we
drain you or make you terrible to be around?”
“No come on, you know you don’t. Hanging out with you is like taking a mental
shower sometimes. I’d probably be way
more pissed off day to day if I didn’t have my friends.”
“So does it make sense that you want her to have
friends? That you accommodate them, you
work to accept and enjoy them because you want to make her happy? And yet she tolerates yours, at best, and
makes you feel guilty for wanting to be around them?”
“But what about when she does something nice to make me happy? Like sometimes I’ll have a hard day at work
and she’ll know it, and I come home and she’s got this great dinner made for
me. How is that not her wanting me to be
happy?”
“I don’t think anybody would argue that that isn’t her
trying to make you happy. It sounds
awesome, honestly. But you’ve got the
tools now to figure this one out. Think
about it.”
“Well…It’s
a private thing when she does that…and if you’re right and she wants me to fit
the image of her perfect relationship, it makes sense that she would do things
like that because that’s the sort of thing that perfect couples are thought of
as doing for each other.”[D4]
“Exactly.”
“So wait, I’m supposed to hate her for doing something that
really is amazingly kind, and really does make me happy?”
“Not at all. You just
need to see that that piece of your relationship, while it’s good, is still
related to the fact that she’s creating an image of what it ought to be. Think of all the times she’s been upset at
you for not doing something cutesy, romantic or thoughtful. Now maybe some of those you probably should
have done something, I can’t argue that, all I’m saying is that’s the other
side of that nice looking coin. She does
it because that’s her image of who you are and who she is and who you are together,
and when you don’t do it you’re not conforming to her image. And that pisses her off.”
“You make her sound so calculating and manipulative. Like she’s trying to break me down.”
“She isn’t at all.
You’re doing that.”
“Huh?”
“You’re the one breaking you down. All you have to do to fix every problem that
you have in your relationship is to own your desires and have boundaries.”
“But you know that if I did that she’d get pissed off at me
for not doing enough.”
“So what does that tell you?
If you’re a person who wants things one way, and she’s a person who
wants them another way.”
“That we want different things.”
“Exactly. It isn’t
that she’s a bad person or manipulative.
She has an expectation of what she wants in a relationship, and I’d say
it’s probably mostly unconscious. It
isn’t a bad thing that she wants what she wants. The problem comes up when we get what you
both want muddled with the kind of platitude you were saying earlier, about how
men should just shut up and let women handle things and then everything is
fine. But it isn’t just a funny thing
that people say to each other about the pitfalls of men and women being
together. It’s how people really
behave. You accept that she’s allowed to
dictate things, and so does she. You
both act on that. And you ignore the
fact that behaving that way makes you miserable because you think relationships
require sacrifice. So you sacrifice, and
you believe that because you’re doing it for her she must also be doing it for
you. And while you’re busy falling over
yourself to make her happy, ‘working it out’ and ‘compromising’ and ‘making
sacrifices’ to make things come together, you don’t realize you’ve completely
missed a fundamental truth about real
relationships.”
“Yeah, and what’s that?”
“Relationships do not require the sacrifice of one person to
another.”
“Hold on though. Are
you saying that in your relationships, you never do anything just because she
wants you to do it? You don’t make any
sacrifices?”
“We have to get nitpicky about language here. I don’t consider insignificant choices to be
sacrifices. I don’t trifle around with
the idea of a ‘small sacrifice’. A
sacrifice is always of something important.
If she wants to watch a comedy and I want to watch a horror film and we
go with the comedy, it isn’t a sacrifice.
The choice of a movie is much less important to me than seeing her
happy. And I don’t hate comedies, besides.
I don’t mind making concessions and letting her win on choices that have
nothing to do with my happiness as a person or my higher values. But when you look at something bigger, something
important, a real sacrifice - I don’t
compromise.”
“Give me an example.”
“I get a new job and it requires me to move. I want this job, I’ve worked hard for it and
I’ve earned it. But she doesn’t want to
move. She likes her job too, maybe she
even makes more than me and she makes the argument that I should turn down the
new job because our life here is more stable and better off financially. If that job is important to my happiness, and
in this example it is, I’m going.”
“So you’d just leave her?
Just like that?”
“I’m not a robot. I’m
not saying it wouldn’t be hard. It would
be terribly painful to leave somebody I love. But ultimately, I know myself well enough to
know that I’d resent staying there and missing out on my dream. I’d hate to leave her but I wouldn’t regret
it.”
“What if it was her who had to go? Wouldn’t you want her to stay?”
“Of course I’d want her to stay. I’m a selfish guy and I’m living my life to
make myself happy and if she makes me happy I want her around. But I wouldn’t demand that she stay, and I
would never use guilt as a weapon to force her hand. Of course I’d talk it over with her, and if I
could find a solution that kept us together I’d jump on it. But if it was a choice between my happiness
and our relationship, I’d choose my happiness and I could never love a woman
who wouldn’t choose hers. What is a
relationship for if it doesn’t bring more joy to your life?”
“Why does your happiness have to be separate from the
relationship? That doesn’t make sense to
me. It seems like you’d be making
yourself unhappy by leaving behind a good relationship.”
“In the short term, you’re right. Pain would be unavoidable if she really meant
so much to me. But my relationship with
myself has to come before any relationship with another person. I’ve said it already; I’m living my own
life. A relationship with a woman is an
enhancement to my life. It can never be
the purpose.”
“That can’t be completely right. What if she was the most important thing in
your life? You love your job and you
match each other and everything is grand, why then couldn’t she be the most
important piece of your life? The one
that brings everything together?”
“She can be the most important person in your life but it’s still your life. Look at the abysmal success with women ‘nice
guys’ have. They have no life or qualities
outside of the fact that they’re nice and will devote themselves to a woman –
and probably any woman. Any man in the
world can devote himself to a woman, even to your ideal woman. And it’s important to mention we are talking about
ideals here. If you’re fine with ending
up with somebody who is good enough, but not perfect, then what I’m talking
about has nothing to do with you. I will
say that you can be happier, you can find somebody better. But if you’re more interested in just being
OK then I have nothing to offer you. If
you think the goal of finding what is right for your life and your purpose in
everything is too hard to accomplish and not worth seeking then what we’re
talking about at this point is irrelevant for you. You’ve got other issues to contend with.
“But to answer your question, look
at your relationship now. That’s exactly
what you’re doing. She is the most
important thing in your life and you’re pushing aside those other things that matter
to you in order to please her. And it is
pleasing to her when you do it. You’re
succeeding. But it’s destroying
you. And if you continue down this path,
if God forbid you got married to this woman, the rest of your life would be
based on the premise that your relationship is built on now. That your happiness is subordinate to
hers. But what if you grew a
metaphorical pair sometime down the line, let’s say 10 years into your
marriage. You suddenly realize that you’ve
been denying yourself to make her happy because she was your purpose. You do what I’ve said you should and you
discover and hold your boundaries and you own up to your desires. If you’re stronger than her, and she doesn’t
leave you, then your positions will have switched. Now she’ll be the one denying herself in
order to please you. You’ll enjoy it for
awhile, but soon you’ll start to wish she would do or say something on her
own. You’ll pray for a spark of
rebellion, for her to say ‘no’ to you just once so that she’ll be a real person
and not just a doll who does whatever you say and desire. People have opinions, people have desires and
needs, people care about themselves. What person is there left to love if they deny
their self?”
“It’s all very logical and it makes sense from a certain
perspective, but look at her now. She
loves me more the more I am devoted to her.
That’s a contradiction to what you’re saying.”
“No, it isn’t. You
said it yourself already. You want
different things. She wants the man who
is devoted to her, whose purpose is her.
You want to live your life and for her to live her life, and for the two
of you to do so side by side. Am I wrong
about that? Am I putting words in your
mouth? You want to have friends, you
want to accommodate her friends and you want her to do the things that make her
happy even if it doesn’t always include you.
She doesn't. She wants a
servant. She doesn’t want to love a real
person, she wants to love her fantasy and
fortunately for her, those men who are willing to give it to her exist. Whether or not there is one who can do it
happily I don’t know, but I doubt it."
“It’s a contradiction then, because she is able to live that
way and be happy. She is holding to her
standards and desires, and she is also demanding that I hold to her standards
as well. Her standards require me to
devote myself to her, and I’m doing it, and she’s happy. You were saying that real relationships can’t
have one person who…oh.”
“Oh?”
“It isn’t a real relationship then, is it?”
“Nope.”
“We’ve said all this.
It’s a relationship between a master and a servant.”
“Which is a legitimate relationship, provided the servant is
being paid and can leave at any time if conditions are unbearable. A person who provides a service for a price
has the luxury of not becoming too emotionally invested in the person or
business paying them. It might be a little
awkward to leave, but few are the people who would hesitate to leave a business
that was treating them horribly. And if
they have no other option, well, what does that tell you about the state of
that person? We think business and love
are so different because there are things about a person that you can love
while overall being very unhappy in a relationship with them. And when it’s a person you’re loving, not a
job, it’s easy to fool yourself into believing that you can work through
it. Good luck giving your employer a
list of demands on how you must be treated for you to work together, or
compromising with them on their standards for how you’ll work. You’ll be fired or ignored. As you should be. Instead, know what your list of demands requires
and find the employer that is willing
to meet those from the beginning. It’s
the same with love and relationships.
Find the person who meets your standards, don’t demand that a person
change themselves in order to meet them.”
[D1]Something
is wrong or missing here. It just doesn’t
fully ring true. What do you know of the
compromises people make in relationships?
I don’t know if anybody would disagree with the example you give later
of her treatment of his having friends, but what are some more common compromises? Also, about sharing burdens, this feels like
a contradiction. Is she not sharing a
burden of yours if something terrible happens in your life and she helps you
out?
Consider talking about cooperation and admitting when
you’re wrong.
[D2]I’m
starting to talk about guilt but I don’t think I ever get into talking about
why it’s negative to accept unearned guilt or the orgin of his guilt (accepting
the premise that his happiness is subordinate to hers, so when she feels bad he
feels guilty for failing.)
[D3]Could
this be rewritten in terms of happiness, “Being happy that somebody else is
happy requires only that they make themselves happy” Or “It
doesn’t take anything from you to be happy for somebody else”
[D4]There
are too many issues going on. While all
of this might come up in a typical advice session and conversation, it’s a lot
for a piece that explores my philosophy and ideas. It’s too convoluted. The ideas at present
are:
- your happiness is not subordinate to hers,
-relationships do not require sacrifice,
-unearned guilt
- accepting that a man has duties toward a woman in a
relationship particularly pertaining to the power relationship,
-psychological unhealthiness of holding an image of
somebody and forcing them to conform,
- having expectations and standards for a relationship
rather than trying to build them from a person who may not share them.
-mixing of bad premises creates problems fundamentally
-what she wants isn’t bad, it’s just not in alignment
with what you want.
-ideals vs. enough
-nice guys
-denying yourself makes you an unreal person
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